In November 2023 Tess Dworman and Sonya Gadet-Molansky performed Everything Must Go at Pageant in East Williamsburg. It was an hour of improvisation and play, showcasing the two performers’ perfect characterizations of the most imperfect characters––from a Tony Robbins-esque manifestation coach to a nonprofit woman in hell. Traversing the hilarious and lamentable with winning confidence, the genius of Everything Must Go resides in the relation between each performative moment, in each character’s innate ability to become another.
It was a delight to invite Tess and Sonya to engage in this conversation. Between each transcribed word we hope you can find the palpable tenderness and admiration between these two inspired performers.
-Clara Kim, CC Intern
This conversation has been edited for clarity and length.
Sonya Gadet-Molansky
Can you name the driving force that makes you create?
Tess Dworman
Hmm… the driving force. I’m compelled by a desire to feel surprised. Because we don’t know what we don’t know. I try to surprise myself and I like to surprise other people. Not like in a “BOO, pop out!” sort of way…
SGM
Right. I mean, I’ve seen your work.
TD
There’s a wanting to feel, a wanting for people to also surprise me, and a wanting to find connection in unexpected places.
SGM
I feel very similar to that.
TD
Humor is also a driving force. It is this indicator of alignment between some things. How does humor work in your work?
SGM
Humor has always been a protective thing for me and a big part of my identity. I was voted class clown in my high school yearbook. I was also in an improv team. I like to work with subjects that are fairly dark that people can relate to, and then I use humor to lighten it up. It’s a central part of existence. When we are in our deepest and darkest, there’s always something funny about it. I think that it’s important. I don’t love it when art is too self-serious. Sometimes I use humor as a way to show people that I’m not a threat. I think you have a good balance with it in your personal life. You’re not afraid of taking up space.
TD
Socially or creatively?
SGM
Socially and in your work. You’re very serious and yet you stand your ground. You are also willing to make a fool of yourself. And it’s respected, which is a really hard balance to strike. I’m getting used to this idea that I don’t have to prove that I’m funny. I don’t have to project this sort of, “Oh, I’m just the little guy, don’t worry about me!” thing in my life these days.
TD
Yeah, I definitely mix the heaviness. Tere O’Connor is a choreographer that I’ve worked with for a long time. He has described his work at certain points as these renderings of consciousness, which feels very true as a performer. And when I’m in other people’s work, the mix of the heavy and light qualities seems truer to life than all being one thing. Plus, your attention is always moving. I am open to something funny, and then changing it, then making a left turn. It is just being present to the changes of state. This is something that drew me to want to work with you.
SGM
Totally. Yeah, I see that in your work, too. You also have this very serious face that reads very honest, and––
TD
But I’m a liar! (in unison) And a BITCH! (laughter)
SGM
Yeah! But you walk into a room, and people just feel this (gesture). And then you go on stage, and you’re wearing no pants at the Poetry Project. Yet, you have a very serious and understanding face in juxtaposition with this ridiculous outfit. I just love that, and it works so well. It’s something that people can’t replicate. If someone tried to copy you, it just wouldn’t work.
TD
Simply wouldn’t.
SGM
We could maybe talk about the beginning of our relationship. I saw your workshop advertised on Pageant’s Instagram. It was called Acting for Dancers and I thought, “that kind of sounds like improv!” The thumbnail picture was silly, too, so I thought it could be something good for me. But I hadn’t researched anything about you before going. I was just like, “This looks great. Can’t wait to do it. Like no worries.”
TD
You were my best student.
SGM
It felt really good to do, and it opened up this piece of me that I felt had been dormant for a while.
TD
It was magical: the way that the branding of Pageant combined with my little blurb about the class brought in a very random array of people. Some of whom were not into it!
SGM
Which is always what’s going to happen at every show you perform in and at every workshop you teach.
TD
Well, I’m not so aware of it when I’m performing. Sometimes they sit quietly or maybe leave, but they usually don’t. That was actually my first time teaching my practice, and people responded. It is common to get haters and to get people who are just so confused that they need to leave. But then, you can luck out. I saw you and I thought “That person is really, really good and if I had money––if I get money in my next thing––I’m gonna audition them.”…and then I didn’t get the money for my next thing and I didn’t audition you.
SGM
But here we are.
TD
Here we are. I had a realization about humor and collaboration. I am a “choreographer,” but less and less often, if ever, am I actually creating movements to teach. It’s more improvisational theatrical scores with some movement. It seems like my directing style has a lighter touch through the years. I get drawn to people who seem to know how to play and manipulate material in their own interesting, unexpected ways, which I saw you doing. That’s also how I met another collaborator, Tingying Ma, in 2017 or 2018 in an improvisation class at MELT Movement Research. I was watching her play while we were out in the big group. I just asked her to be in a piece called “A Child Retires”. I directed her in the same way I’ve worked with you where performers mostly generated the material while we brainstormed ideas. And I shaped it, gave timing and cues, and helped stretch it out. The way this relates to humor is that I am drawn to funny people. And you can’t teach someone how to have that quality. You can’t show them because it’s about timing. It’s about being quick and making characters––especially with you. You love the characters. I love the characters. It’s about committing to it.
SGM
And just not being afraid of looking like a total fool, but like a fool who is actually smart and brave. Okay?
TD
(emphatically) Yeah. Okay, everyone?
SGM
It’s like you always say, “Be bold, be…” What is it?
TD
This was given to me by Juliana May. Shout out Juliana F. May. She coined this mantra: Be bold, be kind and don’t impress.
SGM
I’ve told people about the “don’t impress” part before, and they’re like, “Don’t impress? Like, what do you meeean? That’s the whole thing! We’re on stage.” And I’m like, “Yeah, it’s hard.”
TD
Yeah, that’s the bold part.
SGM
And kind? You gotta be. (unison sigh)
TD
Yeah, it really is a beautiful friendship that we have.
SGM
And for context, Tess just made us some lovely tagliatelle pasta with foraged mushrooms, walnuts, and a bunch of herbs. And it was delicious.
TD
Thank you.
SGM
You’re welcome. Thank you. Um, how did you meet the Pageant people?
TD
I first met Sharleen because she was choreographing a music video that my friend was making. Pageant didn’t exist yet. She was living in this performance/studio/loft space with possibly others from the crew. And… You know what it is? It’s Instagram. Okay, I’m not gonna beat around the bush. I think Sharleen saw my work on Instagram, and we saw each other at shows after we worked together on the music video. She told me about the new space Pageant. And I had just made a movie in 2021 and was wanting to find another place to screen it. And she was like, “Oh, it’d be perfect. You could screen it at Pageant!” So August 2022 was the first time I went there when I screened my movie Carl Soprano: The Day I Became A Minimalist. How about you?
SGM
I was working next door to Iliana at the time. They were involved with starting Pageant in some capacity. I heard it from them first, and then through literally everyone else. It spread like a wildfire. I started to go watch shows there and take workshops––like Tess’s––and eventually performed alongside you. And you hosted the gala too, which was so hilarious!
TD
That was fun. I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again: I’m so grateful that this generation of people connect to what I’m doing because I’m definitely a solid generation older at this point. I’m no longer one of the young kids, and it’s scary when new kids come around. You don’t know what they’re gonna say or do, or if they’re gonna like you. And they all frickin’ love me. I’m just gonna ride on that for as long as I can.
SGM
Who is your favorite character in your piece Everything Must Go, and why? What would it be like to spend a day with that character?
TD
Well, first let’s name who the characters were.
SGM
Okay. So we have one in the very beginning that is kind of like, “I don’t know how the fuck to build a house.”
TD
Yeah, I call her Marissa Tomei from “My Cousin Vinny” in a warped version. She’s this distressed, old, Broadway dancer. And she’s like, “I don’t know what you want from me. I can’t help you. All I know how to do is dance.” Then, there is this power-of-thought-manifestation-Tony-Robbins kind of character in the soft and female version as I’m directing the audience through a sort of guided meditation. This person says, “Imagine everything belongs to you. Imagine you’re made out of flesh, very soft flesh, blah, blah.” Then there’s the person who is performatively reading and having a fit. That came from people who performatively read silently in public. Then, there’s the person who breaks down crying because there’s a little woman living inside of her who just wants an uncomplicated relationship with everyone she meets and just wants to enjoy a simple dinner––as we have had tonight. A delicious dinner and nice conversation leaving you with no confusion, just a memory of simplicity. And that’s all she wants and she’s kind of breaking down. And then I become her!
SGM
And then what were my characters? Go.
TD
Your characters were a nonprofit woman in hell, yourself, a jazz lounge singer, and a meditator.
SGM
Pick one, and what would it be like to spend a day with that character?
TD
It would be really fun to hang out with Marisa Tomei––or my version of Marisa Tomei. She would have a lot of stories and hot takes about everything in this modern world we live in. What about you?
SGM
Maybe the tiny woman.
TD
Oh, yeah. Duh! I would want to hang out with her all the time.
SGM
Because I love the simple life. I’m also good at caretaking, so we would both be caretaking each other.
TD
(laughter) Well, it would be simple. There would be a flow, and she would make something delicious––anything you want!
SGM
Right, anything I want. And I would make her something delicious, okay? I would not want to hang out with the nonprofit lady because I would just be therapizing her the whole time. I’d be like, “Hey, hey, PRESENCE. Can we feel our fingers? What do we see? What do we hear?” Yeah, it would just be draining.
TD
Yeah, I wouldn’t want to hang out with most of the characters.
SGM
Most of them were sort of…how do you say?
TD
So annoying?
SGM
We were exorcizing something. Something had to come out.
TD
A certain quality does tend to come out in the characters that I make, and that quality comes with this naiveté. It is this profoundly narrow view. As we see all the time in the media, a narrow view put on blast is the loudest voice. It’s absurd and funny. As someone who tries to be a nuanced member of society, it’s fun to try on this unexamined bullishness. It requires commitment and belief––that’s the bold part from the “Be bold” thing even if it’s a blind faith. It can be delusional, and it’s a fun place to build worlds. In my movie Carl Soprano, I was being a man, and it was really fun and easy to create these big, bold personalities that were very narrow.
SGM
You know what they say: the oppressed are basically experts at being able to mimic their oppressor. These men and these politicians can’t really make great impressions of women. But because your livelihoods are sort of in these people’s hands, you end up studying them really closely. As a result you’re able to make a really convincing impression of them.
